MacGregor DNA Project update 2024

This year’s DNA update is rather later than usual, partly because it’s not been a year where very much new has happened so it is difficult to know what might be of interest in a blog like this. I have previously discussed aspects of Scottish clanship and how what we see in the DNA reflects the diversity of origins for clans and their associated names. 

     I will begin by repeating an important fact about clans and kinship. Clans were never derived from a single surname; they were always collections of related names and septs. That means we should not expect everybody who is associated with the clan to have the same genetic profile. In many cases, we have to remember that surnames were adopted long after they first appeared, particularly in Scotland because individuals who were less well placed in society, and therefore did not sign documents or make legal agreements, often were unable to write their names. 

      It is true that in Scotland there was a move in the 18th century to provide at least an elementary education for all children, and in some cases children from very poor backgrounds who had particular abilities were not then confined to their social class. Much of the early work in education was done by the SSCPK (Scottish Society for the Propagation of Christian Knowledge)

The Society began to establish schools in the Highlands with the aim of reducing Jacobitism and resisting the rise of Roman Catholicism. The first school was opened on St Kilda in 1711. By the end of that year, the SSPCK had five schools, by 1715 twenty-five, by 1758 176, and by 1808 189, by which time 13,000 children were attending the schools [Wikipedia]

 In the Highlands particularly, surnames were not so commonly used, particularly where individuals were simply known by their patronymics - for males this was Christian name followed by son of (Mc) father’s Christian name followed by grandson of (vic) grandfather’s Christian name. It’s not surprising, then that when it came to adopting a surname, individuals chose surnames that were local, influential, or had some connection to them – it might even be the landowner’s name. In the next section of this blog, I will discuss a new dating mechanism which is attached to Big Y results. I am using the SNP data from the main MacGregor bloodline because there are sufficient results within it to begin to try and begin to make sense of family connections going back into historic time. This therefore is a principle which can be applied to other groups of surnames both within and beyond the project.

     What Big Y has shown is that clan groups are made up of many many lines which split off from each other over thousands of years. One of the latest developments which FtDNA offer is ‘Discover (Your Haplogroup story)’. This option gives you the ability to track when your terminal SNP (given by Big Y) [terminal here means the SNP which is identified as most recent in historical time to you] is estimated to have occurred, and then to track SNPs back in time to see roughly when the line split to form a new line and then back from that into more distant history. 

     I will say more about the dating offered by FtDNA shortly but for the moment here is an example. This individual’s terminal SNP is BY74650 estimated to have split off from S690 in 1300CE and the individual’s ancestor was ‘born’ around 1400CE (common era – that is 600+ years ago) and two individuals on current testing have that terminal SNP. The sequence back in time then goes as follows: S690 split from BY144 around 1050 with 50 individuals from that line. [comment: this is possibly misleading as it suggests that people with S690 should be identifiable who are NOT called MacGregor, [Gregor the genetic origin of the clan bloodline probably WAS born about 1300], but to date NO other individuals with S690 and different surnames [other than those adopted as aliases during proscription] have been identified. Also misleading is the ‘50 individuals’ bearing S690 whereas in fact in the DNA project everybody called MacGregor who is in the main bloodline group has that SNP, and that is over 200 individuals. It suggests that the 50 individuals noted by FtDNA are those who still have S690 as their terminal SNP). Going back in time from S690: 

BY144 split from S703 at around 750CE (55 individuals) 

S703 split from FGC 59322 around 550CE (55 individuals) 

FGC59322 split from S695 around 500CE (56 individuals) 

S695 split from S691 around 450CE (148 individuals) 

S691 split from S744 around 400CE (251 individuals) 

S744 split from Z-16325 around 350CE (802 individuals) 

Z-16325 split from L1065 in around 150CE 

Without going into detail, it’s clear that there are anomalies and approximations here. Another company, Yfull, also does dating estimates – but not for all the later SNPs – their date for S695 occurring is about 600CE and most recent ancestor 650CE, while for BY144 occurring about 650CE and most recent ancestor 1150CE. If you examine the detail on BY144 which these estimates are made at YFull you see that the range is given as between 1220 and 1447 years ago therefore the estimate is given as 1333 +30 years = 1363 years ago (there is a formula which is given on the website, so my explanation is somewhat simplistic). Anyway, 1363 years from 2023 gives 660CE as the presumed date of origin. The map given is strongly UK located with much fainter occurrence in Scandinavia [https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S695/].  

     The Yfull method for estimating time to most recent ancestor on the other hand is much more straightforward and is based on three estimates added together and divided by 3 – however again the formula for achieving the estimates is much more detailed. However, the estimate for TMRCA is 851 years before present – that is, 1172CE. Whereas the mechanism in FtDNA is not apparent, Yfull is much clearer as to how approximations have been calculated. 

     For the SNPs they do cover (and S690 is not one of them) the mapping component is helpful, but not recent enough. A website which maps more recent SNPs is www.genetichomeland.com. To view maps for a SNP you must register but registration is free, and you can store up to 10 maps. Note that Google Chrome seems throw up an ‘unavailable for legal reasons’ problem so a non-Google browser is better (Firefox worked best for me). 

     You will notice that the time estimates given by FtDNA are always rounded up or down to 50 or 100 years. The point is that these are truly estimates of when a split occurred. So, it’s important NOT to take the dates as absolute, and particularly when trying to relate two or more individuals together. A gap of 50 years between SNPs could therefore be anything from 1 to 3 generations (or more). 

     I have drawn out a terminal SNP chart using the approximated years given by FtDNA to show how some of the DNA lines are connected to each other. This is particularly true of the line:

 

FGC17836 to FGC17835 to  FT203761 to MF133765 

which, using the earliest ancestor information given looks as if it might relate to the area north from the top of Loch Tay – those 2 testers who claim descent from John who died in Ontario might look to that area for origins.

It is interesting to note how many of the different genetic lines have an alias associated with them, reflecting the clan’s turbulent history. It might be obvious to say this but the point where the SNP divides is not, particularly in the historic SNPs, to be thought of as a place where historic divisions of MacGregor families (such as Roro and Glengyle [Dugal Ciar] took place. They are simply the point where a DNA mutation took place. This is well illustrated with the only division that produced two subsequent branches here, namely S696 and FT140264 whose shared ancestor had mutation A14374 but currently no one in the project has retained that mutation as their terminal SNP. In fact, this happens all the time in different family groups - whenever a division occurs, that indicates a shared ancestor. And in some cases, like the Stirlings, that is apparently a very recent shared ancestor. 

     No significance should be drawn from mutation happening very early on historically, nor the kit tester having that alias (e.g. Pressley), since almost all the aliases will have been taken post proscription of the MacGregor name. In towns before that there is evidence of individuals dropping the Highland ‘Mac’ because Highlanders were not particularly welcome – so we have Johnsons as an alias before 1600 as in these two entries: 

 “1575. June 25. Advocatis against McGregor and others, George McGregour alias Johnstoun, Johne and George McGregor his sones, Duncan McGregor & Burgesses of Perth to have broken Lawborrowis5. Delayed till 15 Jan. next. “1576. June. 2. Charter and infeftment given to Gregour McGregour alias Johnstoune, burgis of Perth, by Dene Adam Forman Prior of the Charterhouse of Perth. is rescinded by the Court of session in so far as regards the sunny half of three quarters of St. Leonards. Lee. - Decreets of Court of Session. 

     It is worth noting that the alias Drummond is in 2 different generations (see BY39563 line) – one might hope it was the same family, but Drummond was rather a common alias for different branches of the MacGregors to take whereas Pressley came as rather a surprise. 

    Also, I have noticed that Ireland comes up several times when considering aliases – most notably the Boyds. What is rather unusual about the Boyds is that they split into three distinct family groups (split from S690 that is) at about the same time – presumably between 1600 and 1700 as a result of proscription and relocating to Ireland. In the book Illustrations, Historical and Genealogical of King James’s Army Lists there is the following rather fascinating entry which may give some clues to the Boyds who are MacGregors: 

 ‘…about this time an Alexander McDonnell was appointed by Lord Tyrconnel Governor of Galway; he, in the progress of the war, became a Brigadier-General. Colonel O'Kelly, in his Excidium Macario, says he was a "soldier of fortune, raised by merit from the ranks;" and Croker, in his brief notes on that little work, adds that he was otherwise called. 'McGregor,' and was of Drumsna, County of Leitrim. He married in 1685 the Lady Jane Nugent, a sister of Thomas Nugent, afterwards created Lord Riverston. In December 1690, he was removed from the Government of Galway. It is remarkable that in the Outlawries of 1691 he is styled Alexander McDonnell, alias Gregor, alias Boyde, of Clonin, County of Westmeath. At the same time were attainted in Antrim, Daniel Mc Donnell of Dunluce…’ 

   A similar process to the one done here can be applied to other surname groups, as long as there are sufficient entries from BigY tests. For example, many of the Greigs share a common Y line when the SNPs are related to each other. Anyone can check the SNP sequence of mutations to find out if the DNA results point to a common ancestor. Simply put the SNP label and ‘DNA’ into Google and select the resulting ‘FtDNA Discover’ link. The most significant Greig line mentioned is: 

BY135575 [c.900CE] to FT108241 [c.1550CE] to BY212591 [c.1600]  to FT106941 [c.1750] to BY166266 [c.1900]. 

 As always if you find a problem with doing this process you can contact me at richardmcgregor1Atyahoo.co.uk [substitute @ for AT]