Winter 2008-09 Update

  

Welcome to the MacGregor DNA update for winter 2008-9. The project now has over 370 members and the list of names associated with the project is large, containing a significant number of the sept names and aliases associated with the clan. The results, grouped according to significant names or groups of related names, can be found at www.familytreedna.com/public/macgregor.

In previous updates, I have used drawing programs to illustrate ways in which the results can be interpreted in relation to each other, but there are now so many results that these diagrams become exceedingly difficult to read and I have therefore broken the results down into smaller units. Consequently, I am going to concentrate first on some broad conclusions which we might tentatively draw from the results. Then, I will consider how the different subgroups relate to each other. Finally, I will focus on particular subgroups and give some indication of what seems to be the relationship of individual members to one another.

From the results page (see link above), the largest group of MacGregors belong to what I have termed the Ian Cam group. This refers to Ian Cam MacGregor (Cam means blind in one eye), the first recorded MacGregor in the historical record. His death in 1390 is recorded in the ‘Chronicle of Fortingall.’ He is the earliest known ancestor of the current Chief and of many MacGregors who share his DNA signature.

This does not mean that all MacGregors have the same genetic signature; over time, mutations occur as a result of ‘mistakes’ in the copying of DNA from father to son. It has been speculated that the chance of mutation is increased according to environment, age of the father, and/or location of the child in the sequence of offspring. But none of these factors has been definitely proved. It is said mutations have no significant effect on the individual, but they do allow researchers to speculate, for example, on groupings of families. Also, all people named MacGregor or Black or Grier are not related to each other within the period covered by surnames. Surnames, even MacGregor, are adopted by individuals for many different reasons (e.g. inheritance, protection, illegitimacy, etc.).

General Conclusions

In this project there are three predominant groups which are designated under the labels R1a, R1b, and I. These are known as haplogroups. For the most part these are quite distinct. They are thought to have originated in different parts of Europe where people concentrated during the last Ice Age and as the ice melted they subsequently pushed northwards from where they had been located (see map 1).


Map 1 - Haplogroup Migration (click to enlarge)

Haplogroup R1a, as shown above, is assumed to have originated in the Caucuses, going northwards first then later westwards to enter Britain and Ireland, probably through Anglo Saxon or Viking incursions.

Haplogroup I is predicted to have originated in the Balkans and it is dominant as a haplogroup in Scandinavia and Denmark.

Haplogroup R1b followed the Atlantic Coast (and hence the designation Atlantic Modal Haplotype) and eventually spread out to be the dominant group in the whole of western Europe. According to Stephen Oppenheimer in The Tribes of Britain, there were two main emigrations and, in essence, these conform broadly to the haplogroup who retained the DNA marker score of 11 on allele DYS391 on the one hand, and the haplogroup who have a mutated position 10 at the same point, on the other.

How do we know which haplogroup is which from the DNA results? The answer to this, and scientists may wish to stop reading at this point, is that they can be predicted on the basis of previously known results. Scientists would assert that you can’t be absolutely sure unless you test the sample through the relevant processes. However, it seems logical to expect that those who share the same basic DNA profile would belong to the same haplogroup. It’s only at the edges of haplogroups that the results become ‘fuzzy.’

Specific Haplogroups

We’ll look first at the Viking I haplogroup as this, not surprisingly, has rather fewer members than the R1b haplogroup. It is not unlikely that the members of this haplogroup have ancestors who settled on the western coast or islands of Scotland or, where there is known Irish ancestry, probably from those Vikings who settled in the east coast of Ireland.

I have taken results for 25 (see Chart 1), 37 (see Chart 2), and 67 ‘markers’ (see Chart 3) for this haplogroup and the charts are given below. Since progressively less members of the project have had the 37 and 67 marker tests done, the number of individuals in the charts decreases. I have laid out the charts in the same orientation for each set of markers. The numbers refer to the kit number of the participant. Precise details for each kit number are found at the Family Tree DNA web site.


Chart 1 - Viking 1: 25 Markers (click to enlarge)


Chart 2 - Viking 1: 37 Markers (click to enlarge)


Chart 3 - Viking 1: 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

In all cases it is quite clear that there are two separate groups. One way of interpreting this is that they belong to separate invasion groups, a) Norwegian/Swedish based and b) Denmark/Frisian based. The Viking names include Grier/Greer, a MacGregor alias but, there is also a group of Grier/Greer in the R1b group so this might indicate either separate origins or, the intrusion of a Viking male line into the Grier line where the child has retained the mother’s surname.

The second haplogroup, R1a, is almost exclusively borne by the main Orr family in the project. As I have written before, almost all the Orrs in the project appear to descend from the same individual, possibly originating in Ireland (at least from the time of the Viking invasions). Only one other individual (named Westran) is in this group. The 67 marker results for these will be seen in the next diagram.

The haplogroup R1b is by far the largest in the MacGregor project. There are three distinct sub groups within it.

• Those who have a DNA signature with 11 at DYS 391 and conform to the ‘Atlantic Modal Haplotype’
• Those who have a DNA signature with 11 at DYS391 and are almost certainly indigenous to Ireland. This group includes Irish McGregors/Grier/Grierson (you may see this DNA sequence referred to as the ‘Irish Modal Haplotype’)
• Those who have a DNA signature with 10 at DYS391This group includes the main line MacGregor

The chart below shows the R1a and R1b groups in relation to each other (note the single Gregory result (E1b) is included, showing that this one is an isolate and has a completely different origin). MacGregor refers to the principal MacGregor DNA profile (see Chart 4). This chart is based on 67 marker results.


Chart 4 - Relation of R1a and R1b Groups (click to enlarge)

To show this in more simplified form, I have taken one individual from each sub-group who is as near to the modal result (effectively the average) as I can find, and plotted them on a chart (see Chart 5).


Chart 5 - Simplified Relation of R1b Groups (click to enlarge)

Kit 2124 is the line of the Chiefs of Clan Gregor and this chart gives some idea of the distances in genetic time involved. On the left is the main MacGregor line compared with a representative of the DYS391=10 group. On the right the Irish group compared with a representative of the DYS=11 Atlantic Modal Haplotype group. The larger time distances could be as much as 10,000 years. Genetically these groups are very distinct.

We’ll look at each of these in turn, beginning with the Irish sub-group based on 37 marker results (Chart 6).


Chart 6 - Irish Sub-group (click to enlarge)

What this shows is that all the Irish R1b examples come from the same ancestor in the distant past but that in more recent times the Grier/Greer/Griersons appear to have a common ancestry, as do the McAdams with the interesting possible inclusion of a White. It is hard to explain why some branches of this tree seem to have mutated more than others – except that DNA mutations are essentially random.

Next, we move to the group who have a marker score of 11 at DYS391. Most of these will be descended from the original group of post Ice Age settlers (Oppenheimer’s first group) although, because DNA mutations are random, it is possible that one or two of this group originally had DYS391=10 and this DNA marker has mutated to DYS391=11 over the course of ten thousand years. There is no way to verify this. These results are based on 37 marker results (see Chart 7).

Chart 7 - DYS391=11 Marker (click to enlarge)

The time distances here are too long to suggest that many of these people are related within the time frame of surnames (from about 1300 on) except for Greggs 6979 and 130191 (and possibly Gardner as well), McAdams 8857 and 54141, McAdams 83205, and McAdam 82874 (from a different ancestor than the first group of McAdams) and McGregors 137093, 29834, 84081, 126138, and possibly McAdams 12683. The McGregors at least appear to share a common (not main line MacGregor) ancestor in Rosshire or thereabouts (these may originally have been calling themselves ‘Gregor’ and not MacGregor).

Chart 8 presents all those who have DYS391=10 and, as above, one or two of these could have had a more recent mutation from DYS391=11, but there is no way of identifying them.


Chart 8 - DYS391=10 Marker (click to enlarge)

Again, most of the individuals in this chart are not related to each other within the timeframe of surnames with the following probable exceptions: McGregors 7183, 2726, and 27811 whom I have previously speculated were Gregors in the vicinity of Perth. If 28296 is indeed part of this group, as the program suggests, then the connection is very old – and is probably heavily influenced in the programs’ calculations by the occurrence of a marker score of 12 at DYS460. Kits 121543 and 130108 are related and there is the possibility of a Gow related to these which may give a clue to where to look for this group – almost certainly in Perthshire. For Greig 9690 and Grigor 131056 there is a possibility that these represent a very early ancestor in the northern counties of Scotland (Aberdeenshire or Banffshire). Gregory 36006 looks as though it belongs to this group but, according to the genealogy notes, this line goes back to 1390 in Leicestershire so even though there are some similarities in the DNA results, a connection seems unlikely. Presumably increasing the DNA markers out to 67 would separate these out more. The Turks 21757 and 11655 are closely related, as are the Magruders 61472 and 46179, the Greers 35624, 10589, and 68070, and the MeGehee/Mackgahye/McGhies 19870, 74970, 51942, and Mackgehee 121911.

Finally we come to the main branch of MacGregors. The following chart, which is for 37 marker results, also includes some results which are ambiguous but suggest some kind of relationship to the main MacGregor group. This is particularly true of the Stirling results 13635, 16710, and 13678 (Stirling sub-group 1). These are not the same as the group which includes 13621, 38027, 58653, 9290, and 99443 (Stirling sub-group 2) who are known/assumed to descend from a MacGregor and who took the alias Stirling at the time of proscription of the name or soon after. Stirling 28834 has the distinctive mutation of 16 at marker DYS576, but has two more mutations which have caused the program to reallocate his position in the chart. It is difficult to explain why this one line acquired other mutations other than by random processes, unless the connection is earlier in time than expected. The sub-group 1 of Stirlings seems to be a much earlier split, possibly dating to the early Middle Ages (see Chart 9).


Chart 9 - MacGregor, 37 Markers (click to enlarge)

Chart 10 is the same but without the ambiguous results.

Please note in the following charts 99999_MacF should read 120820_MacF(arland)

 


Chart 10 - MacGregor, 37 Markers without ambiguous results (click to enlarge)

In general, close branching suggests possible family links, though it has to be remembered that the programs used calculate on the basis of numerical similarities NOT of known relationships. For this reason it is a good idea to increase the number of markers to 67 so that the random mutations might be less significant between related groups of families. The star-like cluster of these results is entirely what would be expected from DNA results derived from a common ancestor and because Chart 10 is for the MacGregor bloodline, only the length of the lines is relative; no matter what the length of the line in Chart 10, the descent is from the common ancestor Ian Cam MacGregor or the eponymous Gregor who may have been Ian Cam’s father if the genealogies are correct. Once other results are included, as in Chart 4 above, the relative length of these lines diminishes.

Chart 11 is the chart of current 67 results for the MacGregor main group.


Chart 11 - MacGregor, 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

On the basis of this chart, it is suggested that individuals might wish to compare genealogies if they occupy the same branches as others. While family connections are not guaranteed there is a much greater likelihood of these existing where such branch connections are suggested.

Finally, for those who are interested in the internal relationship between groups, Chart 12 gives the 67 marker results for all those who have DYS391=10.


Chart 12 - DYS391=10, 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

Members of the project who have not yet submitted genealogies or who need to update their genealogies, can contact me at richardmcgregor1 AT yahoo.co.uk (substituting the usual sign for the word ‘at’).

Professor Richard McGregor
MacGregor DNA Project Administrator
Chairman of the Clan Gregor Society
December 2008

Where are we now? Update #8

Interpreting the results in relation to the current state of knowledge.

This is the MacGregor DNA Project update for January 2007 to January 2008. The January 2007 update is still the most comprehensive survey and summary of the various groupings in the project. New entrants to the project have their results pulled very quickly, where relevant, into the appropriate family grouping displayed at the website www.familytreedna.com/public/MacGregor.

I suggest that the best way to read this update is to print it out into hard copy and also download the charts separately into your documents folder and then open them using a program which you use for viewing pictures. This will enable you to blow them up larger and make reading the numbers and labels much easier.

Please send in your family information

What would be helpful at this stage would be for the Project Administrator to receive more information from more recent participants regarding their earliest known male ancestor and his family/location because this information is beginning to help identify geographical localities where related families were living.

By way of example, it would be possible to point out the, by now well-known, instance of the Irish group of results which appear to have some connection with the Irish kingly line of Niall of the 9 Hostages, and to which some McGregors, Griersons and Griers (as well as others) belong. Also, I have previously referred to a group of McGregors who seem to have changed their name from Gregor but who, for the most part, have connections with the area round Perth itself, rather than with the main MacGregor line. During the past year a similar grouping has emerged based round Rosshire where, incidentally, the surname Gregor or Grigor is found in relatively high proportions.

Groupings of MacGregors and related names

This update then concentrates on presenting various groupings of MacGregors and related names using both 37 markers and 67 markers. Unlike previous updates I have chosen not to include the Excel files of results because the Family Tree DNA site mentioned earlier is easily viewable, and the Excel grid from that site is downloadable to one’s own computer. Also I am now drawing the trees in a program called ‘Splitstree’, which once mastered, proves to be highly flexible for this kind of work.

A word of caution though; these trees should not be thought of as traditional family trees as such. What they measure is relative distance in time to the Most Recent Common Ancestor and this is expressed in the charts as the ‘modal’. However, because we are here talking about everyone being descended from an individual at some point in the past you will also find that a number of trees are given with ‘root’. This root may be less than a thousand years before the present for some groups but for other groups – like the collection of 67 marker results which is shown for the R1b haplogroup – the root individual will be several thousand years BP (Before Present) – even as long ago as the last Ice Age, 12,000 years or more ago. It is important to recognise this, and each chart is preceded by an explanation which hopefully clarifies it. The initial processing was done using the facility provided online by Dean McGee with the ‘Phylip’ option selected and then the resulting file processed by the Splitstree program. (See D.H. Huson and D. Bryant, ‘Application of Phylogenetic Networks in Evolutionary Studies’, Molecular Biology and Evolution, 23(2):254-267, 2006).

As an example to begin with, I present the collection of individuals surnamed Orr who have tested up to 37 markers [see chart 1]. With two exceptions (not included here) who are from haplogroup R1b, everyone in the Orr group is from haplogroup R1a, a haplogroup that emerged pre-Ice Age in, or about, the Caucuses in the furthest reaches of what is now Europe. Current thinking is that its spread was upwards and westwards for the most part and the haplogroup is now found in many areas including Britain and Ireland.

What we see in this chart is that everyone descends from one individual – and there is one person whose DNA has not mutated very much from the ‘modal’ (kit 100854) – the assumed DNA sequence of the founder. It would be interesting to know if this individual knows anything of his patrilinear descent. In the MacGregor bloodline group the main line from which the Chiefs descend IS the ‘modal’ line (that is, the presumed signature of the founder) and this may have happened, possibly, because of primogeniture (first child of first child, and so on).


Chart 1 - Surname Orr: 37 Markers (click to enlarge)

The second group to consider is that associated with the Irish DNA signature, widely believed to have some connection with the line of the Kings of Ireland – Niall of the 9 Hostages (circa 379 CE). What is interesting here is how the program groups individuals by distance suggesting that they may indeed share a common ancestor pre-surname adoption. This tree is based on 67 markers [see chart 2].

Chart 2 - Irish: 67 markers (click to enlarge)
It may be that this alternative form of tree [see chart 3] is easier to interpret – as long as it is remembered that it is not meant to suggest a family tree as such.


Chart 3 - Connection Tree

Clearly what is very interesting here is the fact that the Griersons and the Griers are obviously grouped together. Also potentially revealing is the connection between McGregor and McGreer and McGregor and Gregg.

I come now to the main MacGregor line (67 markers) – what we have termed the bloodline, though, as suggested earlier it may be the biggest group of MacGregors but, apparently not the only one [see chart 4]!

Chart 4 - Main MacGregor Line: 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

What is suggested by this is a potentially fruitful line of enquiry which may lead to the recognition of family groupings – see the known example of the Stirlings. One correction might be made here – kit 2909 and 2124 suggest separate lines but they could indeed from the same family grouping with some, very limited, mutation having taken place in 2909’s case.

The tree below gives all the 37 marker results currently available for those in the MacGregor bloodline [see chart 5]. Mark MacDonald, of The Clan Donald DNA Project, has suggested that the main MacGregor line (and other clans, too) is descended from Colla Uais (circa 323 CE), one of the High Kings of Ireland who brought his men over from Ulster during the Dark Ages to occupy Dalriada . If he is right, then this could explain the motto ‘Royal is my Race’ (rather than, or as well as, descent from Kenneth MacAlpine). It is important to note that the Irish McGregor descent from Niall of the 9 Hostages, another Irish High King, is NOT the same as Colla Uais descent. These two Irish-based Kings lines only share a common ancestor at the time of the Ice Age (see Stephen Oppenheimer’s [2006] The Origins of the British - A Genetic Detective Story, Constable and Robinson, London ISBN 1- 84529-158-1, published in the U.S. by Carroll and Graf, New York). However, it does mean that whether the MacGregor descent is from Colla Uais or from Niall of the 9 Hostages, both groups of MacGregors can claim ‘Royal is my Race’!

Chart 5 - Main MacGregor Line: 37 Markers (click to enlarge)

What this particular tree shows, when examined carefully, is that there are 3 distinct splits or perhaps better, points from where groups branch off. Towards the top of the picture is one group, and includes Bain N3589 and kit10897, and the lowest group includes 1774 which is believed to be the Glengyle branch of MacGregor. As more results come in it will be interesting to see whether these group collections are maintained. At this point it would be hard to assign any particular significance to the groupings since they are based, it will be recalled, on distance from common ancestor, although similarity of DNA marker score does determine which groups are connected.

The next tree [see chart 6] contains all the DNA 67 marker results for the haplogroup R1b excluding bloodline MacGregors, but including 2124 the MacGregor bloodline, for purposes of comparison. As can be seen there are many branches. Of note is the split which includes the MacGregor bloodline (2124) as it groups with McWhannell and McKinlay and seems to be connected in some way to the Greig line of kit 9690.

Chart 6 - Haplogroup R1b: 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

Just to complete this short survey, I have abstracted all the Viking-related I haplogroup lines which have 37 marker results and the chart [CHART 7] shows very obviously that there are two groups of results here, possibly suggesting an older settlement of I haplogroup peoples or different invading groups (such as Norwegian and Danish). It would be instructive to find out if the individuals in these two groups are to be found in discrete geographical locations in Britain and Ireland. I have kept the box round the Greer at the bottom of the chart because its location is quite difficult to see otherwise.


Chart 7 - Viking: 37 Markers (click to enlarge)

Finally, here is the equivalent tree, in two forms [see charts 8 and 9], for ALL the R1b results which are NOT from the Irish group descending from Niall of the 9 Hostages. The simplest way of seeing this tree is to click on the image for a full sized view. Alternatively, you can save it to your computer and open it with a graphics program that allows you to magnify the image. By this means you will be able to see the complexity of the groupings which are to be found in R1b even jut within the results for the MacGregor project. This demonstrates the incredible expansion this group experienced as it colonised the British Isles and, in fact, almost the whole of Western Europe after the Ice Age.

Chart 8 - R1b Tree Excluding Irish 1 (click to enlarge)

Group members can locate their numbers from the kit number just before the abbreviated name.

Chart 9 - R1b Tree Excluding Irish 2 (click to enlarge)

Any further clarifications or genealogical information can be sent to the project administrator, Richard McGregor, using e-mail at richardmcgregor1 AT yahoo.co.uk (substitute the word AT for the @ symbol).

Richard McGregor

January 2008

Where are we now? Update #4

This is the fourth update on the MacGregor DNA project. The number of participants in the project has now exceeded 100 – it currently stands at 104, although the number of active participants is in fact 89.

There has been a steady trickle of new members since the last update in September 2003 and at the time of writing this there are still a good number of test results outstanding.


Table 1 - Marker Comparison (click to enlarge)

In order to understand this update, it is really necessary to follow through the previous ones as I have only labelled the newest test results on the phylogenetic trees of this update. I have adopted this approach simply for clarity, and to enable newer participants to determine how connected they are to the various branches. Rather than present the whole graphic, I have chosen this time to concentrate on the central group – virtually all of whom are from the Haplogroup R1b (once called Celtic, now properly referred to as Palaeolithic).


Chart 1 - Simplified Haplogroup R1b (click to enlarge)

Chart 1 shows a simplified version (compared with charts in previous updates) of all the tests completed to date. To avoid cluttering up the chart, I have only labelled those new results previously unplaced. It will be obvious however that the group of results around the MacGregor bloodline (the large yellow circle) is too dense to make out the detail.

Chart 2 - Main MacGregor Bloodline (click to enlarge)

Chart 2 therefore, concentrates only on the MacGregor bloodline – which corresponds, more or less, to Haplogroup R1b found across Europe (Spain, France, North Italy, Germany and the Low Countries). Basically this is the result of expansion from an ancestral Y chromosome which developed during the last Ice Age in Iberia. Note that the Viking line on this chart goes off towards the top of the page rather than towards the bottom as in Chart 1, but otherwise is unaltered.


Chart 3 -MacGregor Bloodline: Wide Range (click to enlarge)

Chart 3 is a magnified version of Chart 2, focusing on those results which make up the MacGregor bloodline (elliptical shape labelled ‘Main’) and those tests results which might be directly connected but have more mutations than would be expected (Wider Group). New test results are given on this chart to enable participants to see where they lie. As in Chart 1, the main MacGregor bloodline is the largest yellow circle. Individual members of the project should contact me for clarification if required.


Chart 3 -MacGregor Bloodline: Narrow Range (click to enlarge)

Chart 4 narrows the results down even further to concentrate only on the MacGregor bloodline and those most closely related. [All charts are derived from phylogenetic software from: http://www.fluxus-engineering.com/]

Chart 5 - Genetic Distance Relationships 1 (click to enlarge)

Chart 6 - Genetic Distance Relationships 2 (click to enlarge)

Charts 5 and 6 are two new charts which look very much like a traditional family tree. It is important NOT to read these as ‘family trees’ which show ‘family’ connections. I have included two because careful examination will show that there are different ways of interpreting the genetic relationships. However, the Viking and ‘recent Irish’ groups are still clearly grouped together. They are marked off by two parallel lines //. I have marked off the MacGregor bloodline group in the same way.

I am reasonably confident that these three particular groups show common descent from
1) Gregor the name father of the clan (or his immediate forebears) for the MacGregor bloodline;
2) a common Irish ancestor within historic time for the Irish group; and
3) a common’ pre-Viking’ ancestor for the Viking group.

All the individuals named Orr are related, but not to any of the last three groups, and various Grier and McAdam families are definitely related to each other but again not to any of the three lines above. There is evidence for separate origins for McAdam(s), one Irish and one probably not, and similarly for Grier (Greer), one Irish, one probably not. No other relationships are identifiable. On Charts 5 and 6 the kit number and surname is given.

Remember these trees indicate genetic distance and we can be talking about thousands of years (that is, relating to colonisation following the last Ice Age).

The tree software uses ‘Phylip’ from http://evolution.genetics.washington.edu/phylip.html to generate the necessary grids, and the Tree Drawing software is from http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/treeview.html.

Richard McGregor
Chairman Clan Gregor Society
DNA Project Coordinator

Where are we now? Update #3

This is the third update on the MacGregor DNA project. As you will see from the diagrams which follow this update the picture is becoming very complicated and will mean that I will have to reconsider the way this is presented for future updates.

The project now has 80 participants, but as yet only 62 returned kits (with some in the post). There is a ‘wastage’ of about 10% of those who request kits but decide not to carry on.

The new spreadsheet [correct to Sep 20th 2003] has been laid out differently this time – I have attempted to group together haplotypes which seem to have features in common. In deciding which to put with which I have been guided by the following principles:

• where 385a and 385b are 11 and 13 respectively I have grouped these together since this MAY indicate more recent Irish origin (my interpretation)
• similarly 392 with score 14 may indicate the same
• I have grouped results with 391 = 10 as these seem to lie together (and here 385a and 385b have 11 and 14 respectively EXCEPT for the MacGregor bloodline – and interestingly, GRUER - which has 10, 14 on this loci)
• I have similarly grouped those with 391 = 11 together unless there were reasons for doing otherwise
• I have linked the remaining tests together in various ways which will be obvious, but note 2314 Nevins to 10063 McGregor would fall within the ‘Viking’ group (old HG2, possibly Norwegian)

Table 1 - Marker Comparison (click to enlarge)

The diagrams have been split for the first time. The less detailed one [Chart 1] is the overall picture, while the exploded section [Chart 2] focuses on the ‘Celtic’ haplogroup (the old HG1 – which incidentally for those of you who have been delving a little deeper is NOT only the ‘renamed’ group R1b though many of the participants are probably in that subgroup).

Chart 1 - Phylogenetic Tree (click to enlarge)


Chart 2 - Celtic Haplogroup (click to enlarge)

As indicated earlier, the more people who take part in this programme the more we will understand about our origins. I encourage you to contact me either through our Secretary or on Richard McGregor. Why not take part in the adventure? As I wrote to one enquirer on the webpage ‘kinsmen are united by blood or by community, by descent or by association, but DNA is about exploring our deeper past’.

Please remember that only males can take this test although it is quite usual for this to be organised by a member of the female line on behalf of brothers or cousins. The tested individual should bear the MacGregor name or a supposed alias. Mitochondrial DNA testing is available to both genders but does not link with paternal DNA inheritance at all.

Richard McGregor
Chairman Clan Gregor Society
DNA Project Coordinator

Updated Marker Chart and Phylogenetic Tree Results

This update includes a number of MacGregor sept names and aliases. It will be noticed that the charts, which represent two different ways of interpreting the data, are becoming increasingly complex. I have therefore, for the moment, omitted results for Dowie, Gruer, and Nevins, the first 2 lying within the former HG1 group and the third being the former HG2. I have, however, made some charts also using these names and will supply them to anyone who wishes to see them by return e-mail to: Richard McGregor. If I can work out a more concise way of presenting the charts I will include these names in the future on the online charts.

Please note that the terms HG1 (haplogroup 1) and HG2 (haplogroup 2) have been superceded by a more refined nomenclature. I have retained the original labelling since most of the earlier articles on DNA use this terminology. Please also note that Stirling may not belong to HG2.


Chart 1 - Phylogenetic Tree (click to enlarge)


Table A - Marker Comparison (click to enlarge)

DNA Testing and Early Results

As of October 2002 there were 18 active participants in the test programme but the number is increasing month by month. We no longer use Oxford Ancestors for the newest tests because it has become obvious that the 10 markers that they offer are just not sufficient to produce any clear evidence of connections other than at a fairly superficial level. With Oxford we can really only see whether participants belong to the Celtic/Gaelic grouping or the Norwegian/Danish/Frisian/Icelandic groupings. The Scandinavian and Germanic groupings are not yet entirely clear within themselves but there seems to be good agreement on the Celtic/Gaelic one (formerly called Haplogroup 1 if you wish use the web to find more information).

We have decided instead of Oxford, to use FamilyTreeDNA based in Texas, and the tests are processed by the laboratory at the University of Arizona. FtDNA use 25 markers and this is clearly going to produce results which are more detailed. It is considered very likely that two individuals with the same name (or related name) who share 24 or 25 markers in common will have a common ancestor within the recent past.

Before summarizing the results which we now have available it is important to explain one aspect of early clan life which has not been much explored simply because there is hardly any written evidence. Early clansmen might well be related by blood, but they might also be related through community - that is by living together and adopting the surname of the principal leader of the community. Those not related by blood are often referred to as ‘part-takers’. When such people moved away from the community, or, over a period of several generations, the name would become fixed as a surname. We see this process happening everywhere when surnames appear - John the son of the cooper becomes John Cooper, James of Glasgow becomes James Glasgow. So, sharing a name does not usually mean sharing a RECENT ancestor.

What has been surprising with our MacGregor tests is that the same process is seen in our clan. As I said earlier it had always been assumed that because the clan was so persecuted only ‘true’ MacGregors would bear the name. Peter Lawrie’s (Vice Chairman of the Clan Gregor Society) recent work has demonstrated just how many of the bloodline MacGregors were in fact killed during the troubles which came upon the clan in the 17th century. Nevertheless, it is clear from the DNA that Clan Gregor does indeed have its origin in one individual but also that it contains ‘part-takers’ sharing a common ‘Celtic’, probably Dalriadic culture, AS WELL AS ‘part-takers’ whose paternal ancestry is Icelandic or Viking but whose ancestors over 400 years became entwined with the MacGregors. We should not be surprised to learn of the Scandinavian/Danish/Norwegian connection since the Viking raiders were well known for their activities along the West coast of Scotland.

As well as the results of our own tests we have been able to compare with individuals named Grier, Gregory and Grigg. It is important to remember that single individual results cannot be taken as absolute proof of a connection or the lack of it - to make statements about common ancestry you need to have a larger number of results for each name. All that we can say now is whether an individual is related to the bloodline MacGregor or not, and this is what those participants to our test whose names are Stirling, Nevens, MacAdams and Shankland want to find out. As a consequence of the sharing of results between DNA Project Managers from different surname groups it has also been possible to see that some Campbell and Stewart results are not as significantly different from the MacGregor bloodline as might have been expected.

In recent months there has been an increase in the number of books dealing with DNA and genetics published. Many studies to date have concentrated on the maternal line (mitochondrial DNA or MtDNA for short) since this has been widely used by geneticists in population studies. The use of the Y chromosome is still a comparatively young science and a list of some interesting articles can be found at the ‘Rootsweb’ site given above I would also recommend The Molecule Hunt by Martin Jones (ISBN 0-140289-76-3) which is as good an introduction to the whole field as I have found (in includes discussion about animal and plant DNA and what these can tell us about the lives of our ancestors). A more technical book but one which has a great number of articles concerning human DNA is Archaeogenetics: DNA and the population prehistory of Europe edited by Colin Renfrew and Katie Boyle for the McDonald Institute Monograph series (ISBN 1-902937-08-2). Both books are available from the Clan Gregor Book Shop.

Results


Table A - Marker Comparison (click to enlarge)

From the results from the MacGregor tests shown in Table A above, you will see that two individuals share 25 Markers - kit number 2124 representing the family of MacGregor of Glencarnoch (Chief’s line), and kit number 1774 representing the family of MacGregor of Glengyle. Without question these two individuals are descended from Gregor the name father of the clan.

You will also see in Table A that kit number 2125 representing the family of MacGregor of Roro, has 24 out of markers in common with Glencarnoch and Glengyle. This is entirely consistent with a split from the main family branch in the 14th or 15th century. Kit number 3346 (MacGregor 1) belongs to an individual whose genealogy is not rooted in a paper connection, but who is nevertheless clearly of the MacGregor bloodline, having 25 out of 25 markers in common with the Glencarnoch and Glengyle branches. In this case the project member can confidently associate himself with a descent from Gregor the name-father of the clan despite not having the paper evidence to do so.

Next, compare the results for kits 2363 (Macgregor 2) and 2726 (McGregor 3) and you will see that while these are close to the bloodline they are not from the same immediate ancestor as the four just mentioned. Neither are these two individuals directly related to one another.
What we see is that it is more than likely all six of these individuals do share a common ancestor, but that that ancestor lived perhaps two thousand of years ago, long before the adoption of surnames. and probably somewhere in Ireland . It seems likely then that the all those MacGregors in the project who do not have the bloodline DNA signature were ‘part-takers’. We can also see that the one result which has been carried over from the Oxford Ancestors tests (MacGregor 5 OA only on tree) demonstrates a completely different pattern of marker results and one which is commonly associated with Icelandic/Norwegian stock.

If we now bring all the MacGregor results together we can see that, except for the Icelandic/Norwegian one just mentioned, all lie within the Gaelic/Celtic group (Haplogroup 1) but display a wide diversity suggesting that the adoption of MacGregor surname in the 14th and 15th centuries is completely in line with other clans where adoption of the laird or landowner’s surname was common, and that for the most far those who did so were probably part of the wider Dalriadic or even pre-Dalriadic originally associated with Ireland. These conclusions have to be speculative at this stage, though with more contributions to the project and increasing testing by laboratories of ‘British’ DNA, we should eventually be able to offer greater precision in dating and linkage.

Chart 1 (see below) also shows results for individuals having surnames historically related with Clan Gregor. Here we can see two MacAdams, one Gregory, one Shankland, one Stirling, one Grier and 2 Griggs. None of these results match the MacGregor line though most are Haplogroup One and therefore possibly Irish in origin. The Nevins test (chart only) is clearly Viking but at the moment interpreting the Stirling result is problematic. We could even be looking here at a signature which is the result of Roman activity!

It should be said that it is still not clear how to identify the DNA signatures for the original population of Scotland who first arrived after the last glaciation and whom the archaeologists identify as hunter-gatherers. It is also not possible to distinguish between Scots and Picts at this time. This is likely to prove quite difficult to achieve.

One or two final comments. As mentioned earlier we have been able to make a comparison between these DNA results and some results for Grier and Grigg - the markers show that the individuals who have tested are not related to the MacGregor bloodline, and are in fact quite unrelated. This will not necessarily be true for everyone with these names and some matches may be found in due course.

A Word About Other Clans

We have been able to compare some Campbell and some Stewart data with that of the MacGregor project. It is important to say that we have no idea to whom this information belongs, whether from a ‘proved’ bloodline or from a ‘part-taker’, but what is clear is that there is a reasonably close connection with the MacGregor bloodline (18 out of 21 in the case of two Campbells and 23 out of 25 for one Stewart) which helps to confirm a common Dalriadic origin - our histories are clearly more intertwined than we knew and for longer than just the last 700 years.

We are keeping in touch with the Stewart project because the origin of this clan should be Brettonic and therefore some interesting comparisons will be possible. However, there is a catch - there is a well attested and documented tradition that the MacGregors of Ardinconnel adopted the surname Stewart and fled or went to Ireland becoming in due course Marquesses of Londonderry! If the Stewart individual tested could be proved to be connected to the Londonderry line this would be very interesting!


Chart 1 - Phylogenetic Tree (click to enlarge)

All the results have been entered into a ‘phylogenetic tree’, developed by Fluxus Engineering. I have labeled it to make the information clearer and think this helps to clarify some of the genetic distances involved, as well as showing the clustering associated with haplogroup 1.

As indicated earlier, the more people who take part in this programme the more we will understand about our origins. I encourage you to contact me, Richard McGregor, or our Secretary. Why not take part in the adventure? As I wrote to one enquirer on the webpage, ‘kinsmen are united by blood or by community, by descent or by association, but DNA is about exploring our deeper past’.

Please remember that only males can take this test although it is quite usual for this to be organised by a member of the female line on behalf of brothers or cousins. The tested individual should bear the MacGregor name or a supposed alias. Mitochondrial DNA testing is available to both genders but does not link with paternal DNA inheritance at all.

Richard McGregor
Chairman Clan Gregor Society
Project Coordinator
Oct. 2002