Winter 2008-09 Update

  

Welcome to the MacGregor DNA update for winter 2008-9. The project now has over 370 members and the list of names associated with the project is large, containing a significant number of the sept names and aliases associated with the clan. The results, grouped according to significant names or groups of related names, can be found at www.familytreedna.com/public/macgregor.

In previous updates, I have used drawing programs to illustrate ways in which the results can be interpreted in relation to each other, but there are now so many results that these diagrams become exceedingly difficult to read and I have therefore broken the results down into smaller units. Consequently, I am going to concentrate first on some broad conclusions which we might tentatively draw from the results. Then, I will consider how the different subgroups relate to each other. Finally, I will focus on particular subgroups and give some indication of what seems to be the relationship of individual members to one another.

From the results page (see link above), the largest group of MacGregors belong to what I have termed the Ian Cam group. This refers to Ian Cam MacGregor (Cam means blind in one eye), the first recorded MacGregor in the historical record. His death in 1390 is recorded in the ‘Chronicle of Fortingall.’ He is the earliest known ancestor of the current Chief and of many MacGregors who share his DNA signature.

This does not mean that all MacGregors have the same genetic signature; over time, mutations occur as a result of ‘mistakes’ in the copying of DNA from father to son. It has been speculated that the chance of mutation is increased according to environment, age of the father, and/or location of the child in the sequence of offspring. But none of these factors has been definitely proved. It is said mutations have no significant effect on the individual, but they do allow researchers to speculate, for example, on groupings of families. Also, all people named MacGregor or Black or Grier are not related to each other within the period covered by surnames. Surnames, even MacGregor, are adopted by individuals for many different reasons (e.g. inheritance, protection, illegitimacy, etc.).

General Conclusions

In this project there are three predominant groups which are designated under the labels R1a, R1b, and I. These are known as haplogroups. For the most part these are quite distinct. They are thought to have originated in different parts of Europe where people concentrated during the last Ice Age and as the ice melted they subsequently pushed northwards from where they had been located (see map 1).


Map 1 - Haplogroup Migration (click to enlarge)

Haplogroup R1a, as shown above, is assumed to have originated in the Caucuses, going northwards first then later westwards to enter Britain and Ireland, probably through Anglo Saxon or Viking incursions.

Haplogroup I is predicted to have originated in the Balkans and it is dominant as a haplogroup in Scandinavia and Denmark.

Haplogroup R1b followed the Atlantic Coast (and hence the designation Atlantic Modal Haplotype) and eventually spread out to be the dominant group in the whole of western Europe. According to Stephen Oppenheimer in The Tribes of Britain, there were two main emigrations and, in essence, these conform broadly to the haplogroup who retained the DNA marker score of 11 on allele DYS391 on the one hand, and the haplogroup who have a mutated position 10 at the same point, on the other.

How do we know which haplogroup is which from the DNA results? The answer to this, and scientists may wish to stop reading at this point, is that they can be predicted on the basis of previously known results. Scientists would assert that you can’t be absolutely sure unless you test the sample through the relevant processes. However, it seems logical to expect that those who share the same basic DNA profile would belong to the same haplogroup. It’s only at the edges of haplogroups that the results become ‘fuzzy.’

Specific Haplogroups

We’ll look first at the Viking I haplogroup as this, not surprisingly, has rather fewer members than the R1b haplogroup. It is not unlikely that the members of this haplogroup have ancestors who settled on the western coast or islands of Scotland or, where there is known Irish ancestry, probably from those Vikings who settled in the east coast of Ireland.

I have taken results for 25 (see Chart 1), 37 (see Chart 2), and 67 ‘markers’ (see Chart 3) for this haplogroup and the charts are given below. Since progressively less members of the project have had the 37 and 67 marker tests done, the number of individuals in the charts decreases. I have laid out the charts in the same orientation for each set of markers. The numbers refer to the kit number of the participant. Precise details for each kit number are found at the Family Tree DNA web site.


Chart 1 - Viking 1: 25 Markers (click to enlarge)


Chart 2 - Viking 1: 37 Markers (click to enlarge)


Chart 3 - Viking 1: 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

In all cases it is quite clear that there are two separate groups. One way of interpreting this is that they belong to separate invasion groups, a) Norwegian/Swedish based and b) Denmark/Frisian based. The Viking names include Grier/Greer, a MacGregor alias but, there is also a group of Grier/Greer in the R1b group so this might indicate either separate origins or, the intrusion of a Viking male line into the Grier line where the child has retained the mother’s surname.

The second haplogroup, R1a, is almost exclusively borne by the main Orr family in the project. As I have written before, almost all the Orrs in the project appear to descend from the same individual, possibly originating in Ireland (at least from the time of the Viking invasions). Only one other individual (named Westran) is in this group. The 67 marker results for these will be seen in the next diagram.

The haplogroup R1b is by far the largest in the MacGregor project. There are three distinct sub groups within it.

• Those who have a DNA signature with 11 at DYS 391 and conform to the ‘Atlantic Modal Haplotype’
• Those who have a DNA signature with 11 at DYS391 and are almost certainly indigenous to Ireland. This group includes Irish McGregors/Grier/Grierson (you may see this DNA sequence referred to as the ‘Irish Modal Haplotype’)
• Those who have a DNA signature with 10 at DYS391This group includes the main line MacGregor

The chart below shows the R1a and R1b groups in relation to each other (note the single Gregory result (E1b) is included, showing that this one is an isolate and has a completely different origin). MacGregor refers to the principal MacGregor DNA profile (see Chart 4). This chart is based on 67 marker results.


Chart 4 - Relation of R1a and R1b Groups (click to enlarge)

To show this in more simplified form, I have taken one individual from each sub-group who is as near to the modal result (effectively the average) as I can find, and plotted them on a chart (see Chart 5).


Chart 5 - Simplified Relation of R1b Groups (click to enlarge)

Kit 2124 is the line of the Chiefs of Clan Gregor and this chart gives some idea of the distances in genetic time involved. On the left is the main MacGregor line compared with a representative of the DYS391=10 group. On the right the Irish group compared with a representative of the DYS=11 Atlantic Modal Haplotype group. The larger time distances could be as much as 10,000 years. Genetically these groups are very distinct.

We’ll look at each of these in turn, beginning with the Irish sub-group based on 37 marker results (Chart 6).


Chart 6 - Irish Sub-group (click to enlarge)

What this shows is that all the Irish R1b examples come from the same ancestor in the distant past but that in more recent times the Grier/Greer/Griersons appear to have a common ancestry, as do the McAdams with the interesting possible inclusion of a White. It is hard to explain why some branches of this tree seem to have mutated more than others – except that DNA mutations are essentially random.

Next, we move to the group who have a marker score of 11 at DYS391. Most of these will be descended from the original group of post Ice Age settlers (Oppenheimer’s first group) although, because DNA mutations are random, it is possible that one or two of this group originally had DYS391=10 and this DNA marker has mutated to DYS391=11 over the course of ten thousand years. There is no way to verify this. These results are based on 37 marker results (see Chart 7).

Chart 7 - DYS391=11 Marker (click to enlarge)

The time distances here are too long to suggest that many of these people are related within the time frame of surnames (from about 1300 on) except for Greggs 6979 and 130191 (and possibly Gardner as well), McAdams 8857 and 54141, McAdams 83205, and McAdam 82874 (from a different ancestor than the first group of McAdams) and McGregors 137093, 29834, 84081, 126138, and possibly McAdams 12683. The McGregors at least appear to share a common (not main line MacGregor) ancestor in Rosshire or thereabouts (these may originally have been calling themselves ‘Gregor’ and not MacGregor).

Chart 8 presents all those who have DYS391=10 and, as above, one or two of these could have had a more recent mutation from DYS391=11, but there is no way of identifying them.


Chart 8 - DYS391=10 Marker (click to enlarge)

Again, most of the individuals in this chart are not related to each other within the timeframe of surnames with the following probable exceptions: McGregors 7183, 2726, and 27811 whom I have previously speculated were Gregors in the vicinity of Perth. If 28296 is indeed part of this group, as the program suggests, then the connection is very old – and is probably heavily influenced in the programs’ calculations by the occurrence of a marker score of 12 at DYS460. Kits 121543 and 130108 are related and there is the possibility of a Gow related to these which may give a clue to where to look for this group – almost certainly in Perthshire. For Greig 9690 and Grigor 131056 there is a possibility that these represent a very early ancestor in the northern counties of Scotland (Aberdeenshire or Banffshire). Gregory 36006 looks as though it belongs to this group but, according to the genealogy notes, this line goes back to 1390 in Leicestershire so even though there are some similarities in the DNA results, a connection seems unlikely. Presumably increasing the DNA markers out to 67 would separate these out more. The Turks 21757 and 11655 are closely related, as are the Magruders 61472 and 46179, the Greers 35624, 10589, and 68070, and the MeGehee/Mackgahye/McGhies 19870, 74970, 51942, and Mackgehee 121911.

Finally we come to the main branch of MacGregors. The following chart, which is for 37 marker results, also includes some results which are ambiguous but suggest some kind of relationship to the main MacGregor group. This is particularly true of the Stirling results 13635, 16710, and 13678 (Stirling sub-group 1). These are not the same as the group which includes 13621, 38027, 58653, 9290, and 99443 (Stirling sub-group 2) who are known/assumed to descend from a MacGregor and who took the alias Stirling at the time of proscription of the name or soon after. Stirling 28834 has the distinctive mutation of 16 at marker DYS576, but has two more mutations which have caused the program to reallocate his position in the chart. It is difficult to explain why this one line acquired other mutations other than by random processes, unless the connection is earlier in time than expected. The sub-group 1 of Stirlings seems to be a much earlier split, possibly dating to the early Middle Ages (see Chart 9).


Chart 9 - MacGregor, 37 Markers (click to enlarge)

Chart 10 is the same but without the ambiguous results.

Please note in the following charts 99999_MacF should read 120820_MacF(arland)

 


Chart 10 - MacGregor, 37 Markers without ambiguous results (click to enlarge)

In general, close branching suggests possible family links, though it has to be remembered that the programs used calculate on the basis of numerical similarities NOT of known relationships. For this reason it is a good idea to increase the number of markers to 67 so that the random mutations might be less significant between related groups of families. The star-like cluster of these results is entirely what would be expected from DNA results derived from a common ancestor and because Chart 10 is for the MacGregor bloodline, only the length of the lines is relative; no matter what the length of the line in Chart 10, the descent is from the common ancestor Ian Cam MacGregor or the eponymous Gregor who may have been Ian Cam’s father if the genealogies are correct. Once other results are included, as in Chart 4 above, the relative length of these lines diminishes.

Chart 11 is the chart of current 67 results for the MacGregor main group.


Chart 11 - MacGregor, 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

On the basis of this chart, it is suggested that individuals might wish to compare genealogies if they occupy the same branches as others. While family connections are not guaranteed there is a much greater likelihood of these existing where such branch connections are suggested.

Finally, for those who are interested in the internal relationship between groups, Chart 12 gives the 67 marker results for all those who have DYS391=10.


Chart 12 - DYS391=10, 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

Members of the project who have not yet submitted genealogies or who need to update their genealogies, can contact me at richardmcgregor1 AT yahoo.co.uk (substituting the usual sign for the word ‘at’).

Professor Richard McGregor
MacGregor DNA Project Administrator
Chairman of the Clan Gregor Society
December 2008

Where are we now? Update #8

Interpreting the results in relation to the current state of knowledge.

This is the MacGregor DNA Project update for January 2007 to January 2008. The January 2007 update is still the most comprehensive survey and summary of the various groupings in the project. New entrants to the project have their results pulled very quickly, where relevant, into the appropriate family grouping displayed at the website www.familytreedna.com/public/MacGregor.

I suggest that the best way to read this update is to print it out into hard copy and also download the charts separately into your documents folder and then open them using a program which you use for viewing pictures. This will enable you to blow them up larger and make reading the numbers and labels much easier.

Please send in your family information

What would be helpful at this stage would be for the Project Administrator to receive more information from more recent participants regarding their earliest known male ancestor and his family/location because this information is beginning to help identify geographical localities where related families were living.

By way of example, it would be possible to point out the, by now well-known, instance of the Irish group of results which appear to have some connection with the Irish kingly line of Niall of the 9 Hostages, and to which some McGregors, Griersons and Griers (as well as others) belong. Also, I have previously referred to a group of McGregors who seem to have changed their name from Gregor but who, for the most part, have connections with the area round Perth itself, rather than with the main MacGregor line. During the past year a similar grouping has emerged based round Rosshire where, incidentally, the surname Gregor or Grigor is found in relatively high proportions.

Groupings of MacGregors and related names

This update then concentrates on presenting various groupings of MacGregors and related names using both 37 markers and 67 markers. Unlike previous updates I have chosen not to include the Excel files of results because the Family Tree DNA site mentioned earlier is easily viewable, and the Excel grid from that site is downloadable to one’s own computer. Also I am now drawing the trees in a program called ‘Splitstree’, which once mastered, proves to be highly flexible for this kind of work.

A word of caution though; these trees should not be thought of as traditional family trees as such. What they measure is relative distance in time to the Most Recent Common Ancestor and this is expressed in the charts as the ‘modal’. However, because we are here talking about everyone being descended from an individual at some point in the past you will also find that a number of trees are given with ‘root’. This root may be less than a thousand years before the present for some groups but for other groups – like the collection of 67 marker results which is shown for the R1b haplogroup – the root individual will be several thousand years BP (Before Present) – even as long ago as the last Ice Age, 12,000 years or more ago. It is important to recognise this, and each chart is preceded by an explanation which hopefully clarifies it. The initial processing was done using the facility provided online by Dean McGee with the ‘Phylip’ option selected and then the resulting file processed by the Splitstree program. (See D.H. Huson and D. Bryant, ‘Application of Phylogenetic Networks in Evolutionary Studies’, Molecular Biology and Evolution, 23(2):254-267, 2006).

As an example to begin with, I present the collection of individuals surnamed Orr who have tested up to 37 markers [see chart 1]. With two exceptions (not included here) who are from haplogroup R1b, everyone in the Orr group is from haplogroup R1a, a haplogroup that emerged pre-Ice Age in, or about, the Caucuses in the furthest reaches of what is now Europe. Current thinking is that its spread was upwards and westwards for the most part and the haplogroup is now found in many areas including Britain and Ireland.

What we see in this chart is that everyone descends from one individual – and there is one person whose DNA has not mutated very much from the ‘modal’ (kit 100854) – the assumed DNA sequence of the founder. It would be interesting to know if this individual knows anything of his patrilinear descent. In the MacGregor bloodline group the main line from which the Chiefs descend IS the ‘modal’ line (that is, the presumed signature of the founder) and this may have happened, possibly, because of primogeniture (first child of first child, and so on).


Chart 1 - Surname Orr: 37 Markers (click to enlarge)

The second group to consider is that associated with the Irish DNA signature, widely believed to have some connection with the line of the Kings of Ireland – Niall of the 9 Hostages (circa 379 CE). What is interesting here is how the program groups individuals by distance suggesting that they may indeed share a common ancestor pre-surname adoption. This tree is based on 67 markers [see chart 2].

Chart 2 - Irish: 67 markers (click to enlarge)
It may be that this alternative form of tree [see chart 3] is easier to interpret – as long as it is remembered that it is not meant to suggest a family tree as such.


Chart 3 - Connection Tree

Clearly what is very interesting here is the fact that the Griersons and the Griers are obviously grouped together. Also potentially revealing is the connection between McGregor and McGreer and McGregor and Gregg.

I come now to the main MacGregor line (67 markers) – what we have termed the bloodline, though, as suggested earlier it may be the biggest group of MacGregors but, apparently not the only one [see chart 4]!

Chart 4 - Main MacGregor Line: 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

What is suggested by this is a potentially fruitful line of enquiry which may lead to the recognition of family groupings – see the known example of the Stirlings. One correction might be made here – kit 2909 and 2124 suggest separate lines but they could indeed from the same family grouping with some, very limited, mutation having taken place in 2909’s case.

The tree below gives all the 37 marker results currently available for those in the MacGregor bloodline [see chart 5]. Mark MacDonald, of The Clan Donald DNA Project, has suggested that the main MacGregor line (and other clans, too) is descended from Colla Uais (circa 323 CE), one of the High Kings of Ireland who brought his men over from Ulster during the Dark Ages to occupy Dalriada . If he is right, then this could explain the motto ‘Royal is my Race’ (rather than, or as well as, descent from Kenneth MacAlpine). It is important to note that the Irish McGregor descent from Niall of the 9 Hostages, another Irish High King, is NOT the same as Colla Uais descent. These two Irish-based Kings lines only share a common ancestor at the time of the Ice Age (see Stephen Oppenheimer’s [2006] The Origins of the British - A Genetic Detective Story, Constable and Robinson, London ISBN 1- 84529-158-1, published in the U.S. by Carroll and Graf, New York). However, it does mean that whether the MacGregor descent is from Colla Uais or from Niall of the 9 Hostages, both groups of MacGregors can claim ‘Royal is my Race’!

Chart 5 - Main MacGregor Line: 37 Markers (click to enlarge)

What this particular tree shows, when examined carefully, is that there are 3 distinct splits or perhaps better, points from where groups branch off. Towards the top of the picture is one group, and includes Bain N3589 and kit10897, and the lowest group includes 1774 which is believed to be the Glengyle branch of MacGregor. As more results come in it will be interesting to see whether these group collections are maintained. At this point it would be hard to assign any particular significance to the groupings since they are based, it will be recalled, on distance from common ancestor, although similarity of DNA marker score does determine which groups are connected.

The next tree [see chart 6] contains all the DNA 67 marker results for the haplogroup R1b excluding bloodline MacGregors, but including 2124 the MacGregor bloodline, for purposes of comparison. As can be seen there are many branches. Of note is the split which includes the MacGregor bloodline (2124) as it groups with McWhannell and McKinlay and seems to be connected in some way to the Greig line of kit 9690.

Chart 6 - Haplogroup R1b: 67 Markers (click to enlarge)

Just to complete this short survey, I have abstracted all the Viking-related I haplogroup lines which have 37 marker results and the chart [CHART 7] shows very obviously that there are two groups of results here, possibly suggesting an older settlement of I haplogroup peoples or different invading groups (such as Norwegian and Danish). It would be instructive to find out if the individuals in these two groups are to be found in discrete geographical locations in Britain and Ireland. I have kept the box round the Greer at the bottom of the chart because its location is quite difficult to see otherwise.


Chart 7 - Viking: 37 Markers (click to enlarge)

Finally, here is the equivalent tree, in two forms [see charts 8 and 9], for ALL the R1b results which are NOT from the Irish group descending from Niall of the 9 Hostages. The simplest way of seeing this tree is to click on the image for a full sized view. Alternatively, you can save it to your computer and open it with a graphics program that allows you to magnify the image. By this means you will be able to see the complexity of the groupings which are to be found in R1b even jut within the results for the MacGregor project. This demonstrates the incredible expansion this group experienced as it colonised the British Isles and, in fact, almost the whole of Western Europe after the Ice Age.

Chart 8 - R1b Tree Excluding Irish 1 (click to enlarge)

Group members can locate their numbers from the kit number just before the abbreviated name.

Chart 9 - R1b Tree Excluding Irish 2 (click to enlarge)

Any further clarifications or genealogical information can be sent to the project administrator, Richard McGregor, using e-mail at richardmcgregor1 AT yahoo.co.uk (substitute the word AT for the @ symbol).

Richard McGregor

January 2008