MacGregor DNA Project  Blog update 2025 

It has been a rather quiet year for DNA developments. In terms of the tests which have been available over the past couple of years there is nothing new. Y700 still remains really the best Y chromosome test around but only males can do it, and it relates directly to male surnames. What has been developed by FamilytreeDNA are tools for understanding a person’s male genetic past on the Y chromosome using SNPs (rather than the ‘usual’ STR results). STRs or ‘short tandem repeats’ are necessarily less accurate for genealogical matching because they mutate randomly – in some individuals hardly at all, while in others, mutations occur with greater frequency (reasons evinced have been age of father, diet, exposure to radiation etc).  

    However, as I will explore in a moment with an example in this blog, it seems that the relatively small genetic pool of results from those with male ancestry in the Highlands of Scotland means that some individuals have a large number of ‘private’ SNPs in their results – in other words nobody tested so far has a SNP that is shared which would make it no longer ‘private’. Familytreedna has developed a tool to use when two or more individuals share a common SNP, which gives an approximate date for when that SNP was shared. Last year I explored how this gives a dating sequence for family groups of those called MacGregor (or alias names) who descended from the Argyllshire MacGregors. SNPs (or Single Nucleotide Polymorphism) are points on the Y chromosome that occur and stay fixed (as is believed). 

    This year I was contacted separately by two individuals, named MacGregor, who currently share the same terminal SNP, R-BY3023. They are not related to the Argyllshire MacGregors, or indeed to the other main MacGregor groups (that is, from Rosshire, from Ireland and from near Perth). They do share that SNP with quite a few other individuals called Campbell, MacDonald, Cameron but most particularly, MacKenzie. 

     While one of the two MacGregors has a terminal at BY3023 the other is currently waiting for results of BigY which should prove interesting to see if he comes out with a closer match to the MacKenzies. 

    But that is where the problem arises and in part interpretation is severely handicapped by the incomplete (and sometimes non-existent parish registers). And that’s also where it gets interesting:

    Taking one of the family genealogies I was sent, the nineteenth century line, thanks to census and statutory records, is well established, so that there is direct evidence for Hugh born 1822/3 – he gives his age consistently in the census records and when he dies in 1881 his age is given as 58. And, he is also consistent in claiming that he was born in Kilmallie parish, Invernesshire. However, there is no record of a Hugh being born in 1822/3 at all let alone to Angus McGregor and Catherine Cameron who are named on his death certificate. 

    What records there are for Angus in Kilmallie are as follows (I have included some other entries for what comes next):

1773 Angus/Mary Cameron John, Kinlochleven, 8 June 

1774 Duncan/Florence Cameron Ann, Achintore, 5 July 

1776 Donald/Sarah Cameron Marion, Inchrie, 28 Apr 

1782 Ewen/Sarah Boyd Janet, Blarachern, 17 Mar 

1783 Ewen/Ann Boyd Rachel, Blarachern, 16 Nov 

1785 Donald/Sarah Cameron Donald, Inchrie, 20 Jan 

1785 Angus/Sarah McMillan Flory, Blarmacfeltach, 19 Apr 

1794 Harry/Betty Wilson Elspet, Maryburgh, 30 Aug 

1797 Harry/Beatrice Wilson Robert, Maryburgh, 17 June

1800 Harry/Beatrice Wilson Beatrice, Maryburgh, 13 Jul 

1803 Harry/Beatrice Wilson Archibald, Maryburgh, 30 May 

1806 Harry/Eliza Wilson Catharine, Maryburgh, 9 Mar 

1810 Ewen/Rachel McMillan Catharine, Blaraclurin, 23 Jun 

1813 Ewen/Rachel McMillan Ann, Blarnaclerach [Blarnaderach] 28 Aug 

1818 Angus/Catherine Cameron Ewen, Blarmacfoldach, f 8 Nov 

1823 Angus/Catharine McGregor,[ - ], John, 5 Dec 

1825 Angus/Catharine Robertson, Rachel, Blachorin [dist Fort William], 25/26 Jun 

1827 Angus/Catharine Robertson Sarah, Badacheanan Corran, 18 Aug/8 Sep 

1829 Ewen/Ann Margaret 19/19 May 

1829 Angus/Catharine Robertson Ewen, Blarchoachan, [Corran Dist] 16 Apr/17 May 

1834 Angus/Catharine Robertson Catharine, Blarmachfailan , 21 Mar/6 Apr 

1839 Angus/Catharine Robertson Susan, Blarmacfoldach, 23 Jul/8 Sep 

 Key: father/mother child, place, one date = baptism, 2 dates = birth/baptism, f = in fornication

There is a tombstone inscription in the Fort William Episcopal Churchyard: In loving memory of Angus McGregor and wife Catherine Cameron, this tombstone is erected by direction of their son Donald McGregor Achnacarry who died Banavie June 11th and was buried here June 13th, 1892 

 

FORT WILLIAM [gravestone from GD50/233 in National Archives of Scotland] Henry (McGregor) imo son Charles died 25 May 1811 age 12y 9mo 

 

In the census record there are some entries that show an Angus: 

 1. 1841 

 Angus McGregor born c 1786 (possibly 1782-86 because of census rounding down), wife Catherine (40), son Donald, 14, daughter Sarah 8, at Blarmacfoldich 

2. And: in Fort Wiliam [Maryburgh] 

Angus McGregor age born 1791 (1788-91), wife Ann age 60, grandson? Peter a 5 

3. And: 

Angus MacGregor age 85 (1752-56), Ann (daughter?) age 30 

4. And: 

Catherine MacGregor age 35 (born 1802-06), Ewen age 10, daughter Annabell age 8, daughter Catherine age 6, son Donald age 4 at Blarmacfoldich 

5.In the 1851 census 

Angus MacGregor born c1783 woollen weaver Fort William, wife Ann born c1776 

6. And: 

Angus McGregor born c1779 widower, farmer Muirsheorlich, children, Donald 23, daughter Sarah, 20, son James 13 

7. And: Angus McGrigor born c1791, wife Catherine age 49 (born 1802), son Ewen age 21, son Donald age 14 and son Alexander age 6 at Blarmacfoldich 

1 and 6 go together, 2 and 5, and 4 and 7 (3 is clearly dead by 1851). But there is no Hugh aged c17/18 (rounded down to 15) in 1841 or aged 27/28 in 1851 

 There is a death record for Angus in 1863, a farmer? aged 82 (therefore born c1781) with parents given as Donald McGregor and Sarah Cameron, and he is the widower of Catherine Cameron – the informant being Donald McGregor, son at Auchintore. So, that ties up with the tombstone inscription, and therefore 1 and 6 in the census. Is this the same Donald who had a son Hugh in 1823? It doesn’t look like the the Ewen aged 10 is the same as Hugh as heshould be given as at least 15. 

   However, if the wife in 4 and 7 is Catherine Cameron that suggests that the wife for 1 and 6 is Catherine Robertson. 

   Look though at the names in the parish register – Sarah Boyd becomes Ann Boyd, Sarah Boyd becomes Ann Boyd and Betty Wilson becomes Beatrice: you can’t but get the feeling that whoever recorded wife’s names wasn’t too accurate. So, you wonder if John son of Angus and Catherine McGregor in 1823 was actually a child Hugh by Catherine Robertson. OR is that Catherine Cameron again?? OR is it Ewen because that is interchangeable, apparently, with Hugh? 

    I have included Harry in the list above because according to Joseph Foss he is related in some way (but again it all depends on the DNA connection! 

    I should say that there is a letter from Duncan in Blarmacfoldich in 1825 in the PD60 Central Archives deposit saying that his brother Angus is bearing a letter of recommendation from John Gregorson of Ardtornish and that the family had been farming in that area since Prescription - so that suggests that they were there a while before Rob Roy and his son James Mhor. The significance for this is that it is claimed that Donald father of Angus was the last child of James Mhor son of Rob Roy. That would be doubtful if they had been farming there before Rob Roy. And where is Hugh – before he turns up in 1851 in Ballantrae Ayrshire aged 29 married with wife Elizabeth aged 22, son Angus 2 and son John aged 1 month? 

   The second family who are related through the early SNP BY-3023 (estimated to have arisen about 250CE [used to be labelled AD] may provide a clue. They also descend from an Angus – this Angus died in 1866 at the age of 68 according to his son, but on his marriage certificate (2nd marriage) in 1855 he says he is 50 and then in the censuses he gives his age as 45 in 1851 and 59 in 1861 so clearly didn’t actually know his age. But, presumably, when he said his father was Duncan, (a mason) and mother Margaret Fraser he knew that for a fact. We can find Duncan in the parish registers. Duncan was actually for a time in “Locheil’s Highland Regiment of Foot” and there are children born to them: Catherine in Paisley (however we cant be sure if this the same couple as he is a ‘threadmaker’ according to the record), a daughter (unnamed) born in 1799 in Boleskine and Abertarff , Invernesshire [bottom end of Loch Ness] (the father was ‘not near’ so the child required a sponsor), and then in 1805 the same couple (he is still a solder) had a son Duncan in Edinburgh. Angus’s son knew that his father’s father had been a soldier, but he said that Angus’s father was Angus not Duncan (however he also says the regiment was the 78th so that could be checked). Duncan was no doubt from the Highlands and since Lochiel’s lands include the Fort William area it seems likely that Duncan came from the same parish and family as the family of Hugh that was discussed above, but the parish records are incomplete, and as you can see what someone’s children thought their grandparents were called was not always accurate. 

    I know this was a long diversion but I wanted to show what the steps were to trying to find out the facts and how DNA can be used to confirm or deny a story, If you have followed the thread so far you will have guessed that Angus who married Catherine Cameron (1 and 6) was the son of Donald McGregor and Sarah Cameron but not entered in the parish record. The significance of this, as I noted earlier, is that Joseph Foss maintained that Donald was a son of James Mohr MacGregor, son of Rob Roy born in 1753 – more or less at the time James fled to France where he died in 1754. So, the DNA for Hugh son of Angus McGregor and Catherine Cameron would not necessarily show any connection to the Argyllshire MacGregors (always assuming Rob Roy’s line was legitimate) and the confusion of males with the same christian name creates a problem. In other words Donald born 1753?was not a child of James Mohr (unless Rob Roy’s line did not descend from the Argyllshire MacGregors. Of course, there is one little fly in the ointment – that Hugh (not entered in the parish record) had a sister called Annabell (also not entered) – which of course was the name of James Mohr’s wife (Annabell McNicol). Wouldn’t it be good if genealogy was straightforward.? So we are still looking for a probable male MacGregor descendant of Rob Roy!!

For the second part of this blog, I wanted to deal briefly with the Greig, Gregor, and Gregory families (no matter how spelt) to see if there was any overlap now that a number of BigY SNP results are available. This process involved downloading and combining all the Y chromosome 67 STR marker data from the FamilytreeDNA results page for the several surnames and editing it so that only the kit numbers appeared. I then ran the number sequence through Dean McGee’s Y DNA tool to produce a grid which shows the apparent relative closeness of some family groups by the colour matching – note the relationship time is not necessarily correct as I asked for a high percentage of probability. The resulting grid is Fig, 1. I say ‘apparent’ because this seems to show the relative closeness of families with different surnames, but the dates start to go back into the past when the closest relatives of the same name are ignored. There would have been less colour if I had opted for a lower percentage of probable time when individuals were related.

Fig 1 name relationship grid. From these, 6 more related groups can be seen – the largest being Gregories.

A well as this, Dean’s programme produced a Phylip grid – effectively the above in another form  -  and  that was uploaded into Daniel Huson and David Bryant’s program Splitstree (as usual)  which produced a spider diagram of  results as below (Fig. 2):

Fig 2:  raw chart of kits for the various surnames

At this point I inserted the surnames attached to each kit number and then added in red the BigY terminal SNPs (Fig 3).

Fig 3: the grid name and Big Y terminal SNP data

From this you can now see the various family groups and more particularly the high incidence of relationship among some members who share a surname, BUT, also  that others of that same surname are much less closely related. The SNP results suggest the common ancestor date, but again this needs to be treated with caution because the connection date could be a lot further back in  historic time than it appears. It does seem that ARE some branches which produced different surnames (for example Gregg and Gregory), but their common root is far back along the line, potentially pre surnames. Other than this there does not seem presently to be a direct link between or among these different surnames.

     As always, this is just my interpretation, but do feel free to contact me at richardmcgregor1ATyahoo.co.uk (substitute @ for AT). My thanks to Dean McGee, and the creators of Splitstree.

MacGregor DNA Project update 2024

This year’s DNA update is rather later than usual, partly because it’s not been a year where very much new has happened so it is difficult to know what might be of interest in a blog like this. I have previously discussed aspects of Scottish clanship and how what we see in the DNA reflects the diversity of origins for clans and their associated names. 

     I will begin by repeating an important fact about clans and kinship. Clans were never derived from a single surname; they were always collections of related names and septs. That means we should not expect everybody who is associated with the clan to have the same genetic profile. In many cases, we have to remember that surnames were adopted long after they first appeared, particularly in Scotland because individuals who were less well placed in society, and therefore did not sign documents or make legal agreements, often were unable to write their names. 

      It is true that in Scotland there was a move in the 18th century to provide at least an elementary education for all children, and in some cases children from very poor backgrounds who had particular abilities were not then confined to their social class. Much of the early work in education was done by the SSCPK (Scottish Society for the Propagation of Christian Knowledge)

The Society began to establish schools in the Highlands with the aim of reducing Jacobitism and resisting the rise of Roman Catholicism. The first school was opened on St Kilda in 1711. By the end of that year, the SSPCK had five schools, by 1715 twenty-five, by 1758 176, and by 1808 189, by which time 13,000 children were attending the schools [Wikipedia]

 In the Highlands particularly, surnames were not so commonly used, particularly where individuals were simply known by their patronymics - for males this was Christian name followed by son of (Mc) father’s Christian name followed by grandson of (vic) grandfather’s Christian name. It’s not surprising, then that when it came to adopting a surname, individuals chose surnames that were local, influential, or had some connection to them – it might even be the landowner’s name. In the next section of this blog, I will discuss a new dating mechanism which is attached to Big Y results. I am using the SNP data from the main MacGregor bloodline because there are sufficient results within it to begin to try and begin to make sense of family connections going back into historic time. This therefore is a principle which can be applied to other groups of surnames both within and beyond the project.

     What Big Y has shown is that clan groups are made up of many many lines which split off from each other over thousands of years. One of the latest developments which FtDNA offer is ‘Discover (Your Haplogroup story)’. This option gives you the ability to track when your terminal SNP (given by Big Y) [terminal here means the SNP which is identified as most recent in historical time to you] is estimated to have occurred, and then to track SNPs back in time to see roughly when the line split to form a new line and then back from that into more distant history. 

     I will say more about the dating offered by FtDNA shortly but for the moment here is an example. This individual’s terminal SNP is BY74650 estimated to have split off from S690 in 1300CE and the individual’s ancestor was ‘born’ around 1400CE (common era – that is 600+ years ago) and two individuals on current testing have that terminal SNP. The sequence back in time then goes as follows: S690 split from BY144 around 1050 with 50 individuals from that line. [comment: this is possibly misleading as it suggests that people with S690 should be identifiable who are NOT called MacGregor, [Gregor the genetic origin of the clan bloodline probably WAS born about 1300], but to date NO other individuals with S690 and different surnames [other than those adopted as aliases during proscription] have been identified. Also misleading is the ‘50 individuals’ bearing S690 whereas in fact in the DNA project everybody called MacGregor who is in the main bloodline group has that SNP, and that is over 200 individuals. It suggests that the 50 individuals noted by FtDNA are those who still have S690 as their terminal SNP). Going back in time from S690: 

BY144 split from S703 at around 750CE (55 individuals) 

S703 split from FGC 59322 around 550CE (55 individuals) 

FGC59322 split from S695 around 500CE (56 individuals) 

S695 split from S691 around 450CE (148 individuals) 

S691 split from S744 around 400CE (251 individuals) 

S744 split from Z-16325 around 350CE (802 individuals) 

Z-16325 split from L1065 in around 150CE 

Without going into detail, it’s clear that there are anomalies and approximations here. Another company, Yfull, also does dating estimates – but not for all the later SNPs – their date for S695 occurring is about 600CE and most recent ancestor 650CE, while for BY144 occurring about 650CE and most recent ancestor 1150CE. If you examine the detail on BY144 which these estimates are made at YFull you see that the range is given as between 1220 and 1447 years ago therefore the estimate is given as 1333 +30 years = 1363 years ago (there is a formula which is given on the website, so my explanation is somewhat simplistic). Anyway, 1363 years from 2023 gives 660CE as the presumed date of origin. The map given is strongly UK located with much fainter occurrence in Scandinavia [https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S695/].  

     The Yfull method for estimating time to most recent ancestor on the other hand is much more straightforward and is based on three estimates added together and divided by 3 – however again the formula for achieving the estimates is much more detailed. However, the estimate for TMRCA is 851 years before present – that is, 1172CE. Whereas the mechanism in FtDNA is not apparent, Yfull is much clearer as to how approximations have been calculated. 

     For the SNPs they do cover (and S690 is not one of them) the mapping component is helpful, but not recent enough. A website which maps more recent SNPs is www.genetichomeland.com. To view maps for a SNP you must register but registration is free, and you can store up to 10 maps. Note that Google Chrome seems throw up an ‘unavailable for legal reasons’ problem so a non-Google browser is better (Firefox worked best for me). 

     You will notice that the time estimates given by FtDNA are always rounded up or down to 50 or 100 years. The point is that these are truly estimates of when a split occurred. So, it’s important NOT to take the dates as absolute, and particularly when trying to relate two or more individuals together. A gap of 50 years between SNPs could therefore be anything from 1 to 3 generations (or more). 

     I have drawn out a terminal SNP chart using the approximated years given by FtDNA to show how some of the DNA lines are connected to each other. This is particularly true of the line:

 

FGC17836 to FGC17835 to  FT203761 to MF133765 

which, using the earliest ancestor information given looks as if it might relate to the area north from the top of Loch Tay – those 2 testers who claim descent from John who died in Ontario might look to that area for origins.

It is interesting to note how many of the different genetic lines have an alias associated with them, reflecting the clan’s turbulent history. It might be obvious to say this but the point where the SNP divides is not, particularly in the historic SNPs, to be thought of as a place where historic divisions of MacGregor families (such as Roro and Glengyle [Dugal Ciar] took place. They are simply the point where a DNA mutation took place. This is well illustrated with the only division that produced two subsequent branches here, namely S696 and FT140264 whose shared ancestor had mutation A14374 but currently no one in the project has retained that mutation as their terminal SNP. In fact, this happens all the time in different family groups - whenever a division occurs, that indicates a shared ancestor. And in some cases, like the Stirlings, that is apparently a very recent shared ancestor. 

     No significance should be drawn from mutation happening very early on historically, nor the kit tester having that alias (e.g. Pressley), since almost all the aliases will have been taken post proscription of the MacGregor name. In towns before that there is evidence of individuals dropping the Highland ‘Mac’ because Highlanders were not particularly welcome – so we have Johnsons as an alias before 1600 as in these two entries: 

 “1575. June 25. Advocatis against McGregor and others, George McGregour alias Johnstoun, Johne and George McGregor his sones, Duncan McGregor & Burgesses of Perth to have broken Lawborrowis5. Delayed till 15 Jan. next. “1576. June. 2. Charter and infeftment given to Gregour McGregour alias Johnstoune, burgis of Perth, by Dene Adam Forman Prior of the Charterhouse of Perth. is rescinded by the Court of session in so far as regards the sunny half of three quarters of St. Leonards. Lee. - Decreets of Court of Session. 

     It is worth noting that the alias Drummond is in 2 different generations (see BY39563 line) – one might hope it was the same family, but Drummond was rather a common alias for different branches of the MacGregors to take whereas Pressley came as rather a surprise. 

    Also, I have noticed that Ireland comes up several times when considering aliases – most notably the Boyds. What is rather unusual about the Boyds is that they split into three distinct family groups (split from S690 that is) at about the same time – presumably between 1600 and 1700 as a result of proscription and relocating to Ireland. In the book Illustrations, Historical and Genealogical of King James’s Army Lists there is the following rather fascinating entry which may give some clues to the Boyds who are MacGregors: 

 ‘…about this time an Alexander McDonnell was appointed by Lord Tyrconnel Governor of Galway; he, in the progress of the war, became a Brigadier-General. Colonel O'Kelly, in his Excidium Macario, says he was a "soldier of fortune, raised by merit from the ranks;" and Croker, in his brief notes on that little work, adds that he was otherwise called. 'McGregor,' and was of Drumsna, County of Leitrim. He married in 1685 the Lady Jane Nugent, a sister of Thomas Nugent, afterwards created Lord Riverston. In December 1690, he was removed from the Government of Galway. It is remarkable that in the Outlawries of 1691 he is styled Alexander McDonnell, alias Gregor, alias Boyde, of Clonin, County of Westmeath. At the same time were attainted in Antrim, Daniel Mc Donnell of Dunluce…’ 

   A similar process to the one done here can be applied to other surname groups, as long as there are sufficient entries from BigY tests. For example, many of the Greigs share a common Y line when the SNPs are related to each other. Anyone can check the SNP sequence of mutations to find out if the DNA results point to a common ancestor. Simply put the SNP label and ‘DNA’ into Google and select the resulting ‘FtDNA Discover’ link. The most significant Greig line mentioned is: 

BY135575 [c.900CE] to FT108241 [c.1550CE] to BY212591 [c.1600]  to FT106941 [c.1750] to BY166266 [c.1900]. 

 As always if you find a problem with doing this process you can contact me at richardmcgregor1Atyahoo.co.uk [substitute @ for AT]