MacGregor DNA Project annual update 2013
Welcome
to this update of the MacGregor DNA project for 2012 which is being posted in January 2013. The project continues to expand with about
100 new participants registering every year (including some people who join
both this and other projects).
Please
note that all references on this blog to ancestral origins are dependant on the
accuracy of the information provided by participants. The charts are generated
using Dean McGee’s program using 30 years per generation, 50% probability and
Doug McDonald’s mutation rate average. The website for Dean’s program is:
http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility.html. The charts are generated using the program
Splitstree which is available at www.splits tree.org using the Closest Tree
filter. The citation for this program is as follows:
D.
H. Huson and D. Bryant, Application
of Phylogenetic Networks in Evolutionary Studies, Mol. Biol. Evol.,
23(2):254-267, 2006.
This
year I am focusing on 5 main groups and attempting to include as many of the
new participants as possible from the groups which are not the main Ian Cam
MacGregor bloodline. I am therefore
concentrating on what I have called the Viking groups, Sept and Irish [taken together], Gregg and Gregory [taken
together], MacGregor Distant, and M(a)cAdams from the results website which can
be found at www.familytreedna.com/public/macgregor.
I need to explain why I have adopted these labels and I will do that for each
group as I discuss them.
First
of all the two ‘Viking’ groups. These are known as haplogroups I1 and I2 and
while they have a common origin many thousands of years ago their recent
development is quite separate. I1, as far as British/Irish genetic ancestry is
concerned, probably reflects the influence of the Norse – particularly
Norwegian (and to a lesser extent Danish) invasions in the later centuries of
the 1st Millennium AD. I2 on the other hand probably reflects more
the Danish and northern European (Belgic etc.) invasion or settlement in
Britain (remembering that the countries as they now stand are more recent
creations and there was a lot of movement through and across Europe in both
prehistoric and historic times).
Viking Group I1
Chart
1a - Viking Group 1 (I1)
The
I1 group which is shown in Chart 1 has more individuals in it, possibly
reflecting greater Norwegian influence in Scotland and Ireland. Although all
are related to a common ancestor (labelled modal) most others spring from
common source individuals (most recent
ancestor) who probably lived long before surnames were adopted, and probably
not in Scotland or Ireland.
Without
going into detail, the shorter the line between two individuals the closer
related they are. Thus in this chart the
Greggs 38216, U2361 and 9243 are definitely related to each other and probably
quite recently with a split having happened in the family leading to 38216 on
the one hand and U2361 and 9243 splitting much more recently. 38216 goes back
to a John in Antrim Ireland born c 1690 – this may be the common ancestor (but
see the group of Gregg and Gregory for a possible problem here). Similarly the
Gregorys 168837 and 146665 are closely related and share a recent common
ancestor who may be the Richard Gregory born 1763 in Pennsylvania. The Skinners
101344 and 235447 are closely related, possibly to a John alive in the 15th
century. No one else on this chart is closely related.
I
have added into this version of Chart 1 all the ‘viking’ Grier/Greers and it
will be seen that with one exception they all group together (bottom right of
chart). Interestingly this group includes a Frazier who seems to be a genetic
cousin of the Griers and may represent an adoption or non-paternity event in
historic time. All these individuals are closely related (this group has been
explored in greater depth in previous updates)
Viking Group I2
Chart
2 - ‘Viking Group 2’ [I2]
In
Chart 2 which is the I2 haplogroup, the two Kings 22659 and 178417 are closely
related – since these two individuals trace back to the 1750s in Ireland and
Scotland separately then the common ancestor must be earlier than 1750 but it is
not possible to say whether the ancestor lived in Scotland or Ireland. What is
particularly interesting in this chart is the three individuals who have
different names – 177355 McClister, NS1448 McGregor, and 45658 McLean – this
must surely indicate the likelihood a ?Danish Viking ancestor on the west coast
of Scotland (one post on the internet suggests that the McClisters were
arrowmakers to the MacGregors).
Other
names on this chart are Malo(ch), McF(arland), Whit(e), Smit(h), Dia(z), Kin(g), Dea(n). Mac(Liver), Stir(ling)
Further
information on the haplogroups I1 and I2 will be found at these websites:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml
Septs and Irish
Chart
3 - Septs and Irish
In
this chart what I have done is to put two groups together to show in particular
how different descriptive surnames (White, Black, Brown) can have different
origins. It also indicates how close together the Irish group is despite
different surnames and how difficult it can be within the Irish group to decide
whether this represents a common surname origin or a common ancestor pre
surnames.
Note
that the line that goes off the page to the bottom right leads to 3 participants
who do not belong to haplogroup R1b which all those shown do, and therefore
their genetic ancestry is rather different from those shown. The kit numbers
are 151731 White, 108644 Black, and 226547 White. The line which leaves the
chart to the top right hand corner goes to 139352 Black. In the chart the following are the names
Gre(er), Gree(r), Grie(r), Gri(er), Blac(k), Bla(ck), Bl(ack), Doc(herty), Whi(te), Whit(e), Kin(g),
Lak(ie), McG(regor), McGre(gor), MacGr(egor), Brow(n), Why(te), Lac(kie),
Leck(ie)
All
those lines which lie below the modal line have the characteristic Irish
signature. It will be seen that most of the Greers (however spelt) fall within this
group (but remembering that there is also a group, not shown here who have a
non Irish signature, and equally another group who have the ‘viking’
signature). Although these are all related to a common ancestor there does appear
to be several family group as shown by the different lines. 173150 is Grierson
as is 33323. For discussion of these
families see previous versions of this blog and the public website for the
project, address given above, for the earliest ancestors of this group. The
McGregors, Blacks and Whites in this part of the chart might be distantly
related to each other – and this could be after the adoption of surnames.
The
rest of the sept names show a wide divergence from each other and from the main
MacGregor bloodline shown as 2124 in this chart (with Brown being the nearest
genetically). Not all the sept names
have been included here in order to make sure that the chart was readable. Among
those not included are: the McGees (however spelt) most of whom are related to
each other – and there is a separate DNA project for this name; the Turks (all
related to each other); the Dougalls etc. If any member of this sept group
would like me to run a separate chart with them included please contact me
directly at the email address given at the bottom of the page.
(McGee
website http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mcgee)
- King
74820 and 179850 are closely related (they both claim descent from David King
1765 Edinburgh).
- Some
more distant connections are suggested, such as 1) 250257 McGregor and 81303
Black; 2) 133351 Black, 136778 Black, 139352 Black, and 256286 Whyte; 3) 229554
White, 32205 White and 114313 Lackie
Greig, Gregg, Gragg and Gregory
Chart
4 - Greig, Gregg, Gragg and Gregory
Next
is the chart for Gregg, Gragg, Greig (and various other spellings) and Gregory.
In order to make a comparison with the MacGregor Ian Cam line I have included
kit 2124 which is the main reference line for the Ian Cam group. The individual
names can be identified by the kit number and the first letters (Gra = Gragg,
Gre = Gregg or Greig, and Gry = Gregory).
The
most important story here is that there are multiple origins for the Gregg and
Gregory names shown in this chart but that some participants ARE related to
each other. Starting at the left side:
- Gregories 179191 and 24223 are very
close: this looks like it might be an Aberdeen connection – could this be the
famous Gregory family of Aberdeen?
- Graggs 81282, 259416 and 158127 – are
all related (with the possibility of an
earlier split indicated by Griggs 212668).
Note though that 81282 projects an ancestor John born in Antrim in 1690
– this cannot genetically be the same as 38216 who also claims the same
ancestor but from the Viking Group. If both genealogies are right then one may
contain a non-paternity event.
- Kit
239588 and 239449 are Norwegian Greig descendants of the composer Edvard Greig
– of particular interest here is the earlier split which led to 195430 who
claims decent from Captain James Gregg of Dundonald (Ayrshire or Fifeshire?) - Edvard Greig’s ancestors are supposed to
have come from the north east of Scotland.
The
following other relationships are shown by the DNA:
- Gregg
and Gragg, kits 141020, 214992 and 7489
- suggested ancestry Kilkenny Ireland and South Carolina
- Gregory
200827 and 36169 Gregory - Tennessee and
England
- Greig
and Gregg 64662 and 45360 - Pathhead
Scotland
These
might share a common distant ancestor with Gregory 253062 [Lincolnshire]
- Gregory
81123 and 23361 - Virginia
- Gregg
130191 and 6979 – Tipperary and possibly also Gregory 168499 – Cork, Ireland
- Gregg
137236, 76121 and 110496 – no locations given
- Possibly
(but not definitely) Griggs 233084 and NS2932 Gregory [no locations given].
These might share a distant connection with the following
- Gregory
N74931, 201682, 67166, 179683, 1961, 43234, 58711, 30977, 8100 all Virginia,
and North Carolina, Northampton and Scotland (kit 8100)
- Finally
Gregory 36006, [1390 England??], 9690 Grieg [Rathen, Aberdeenshire], 131056
Grigor [? North east Scotland], 73052 Gregory [Scotland] and 2124 MacGregor
[Argyllshire] seem to have a connection which goes back in north Scotland to
before 1350. If the split between these
individuals in this group could be dated more accurately it would give a better
understanding of the origin of the Gregor/Grigor/Greig/MacGregor connections.
This might well soon be possible if SNP testing (which I discuss at the end of
this update) continues to develop.
Please
note that there is a Gregory and a Gregg/Grigg DNA project which both have more
members than represented in the MacGregor project. Please see:
www.familytreedna.com/public/GREGORYDNAProject
www.familytreedna.com/public/grigg
M(a)cGregor Distant
I
have discussed this group in a previous update so I will confine comments
to some general comments about those
groups of McGregors who are clearly related. Where the lines are longer it is
not clear if the individuals connected are related within the time of surnames
but again if anyone would like me to help them make contact with an individual
who might not otherwise show on the DNA matches then please write to me at the email address below.
Starting
from the left, 218135, 155381, 164124, 158870, 186233, 99676 and possibly 20630
are closely related to each other and the earliest ancestries known go back to
the Rosshire area of Scotland.
- 122079 and 121543 should be closely related but
no ancestral location is available other
than Scotland.
- 17621 (McKinley), 28296 McGregor (or McComas) (from Brig o Turk, Perthshire)
have a strong genetic connection, probably pre surname to the MacGregor
bloodline 2124.
- 7183, 2726, 138445, N49861 161907 and 27811,
all appear to belong to a group of (Mc)Gregors who lived in the vicinity of Perth.
94589, 158917 and 129009 are closely related – there may be a connection with
Clackmannanshire in Scotland.
- 153297, 198351 and 4151 descend from Thomas
Callum alias McGregor who lived in Keith and Grantown on Spey 1738-181(5).
- 29834, 200914, 101298, 84081, 137093,
251882, 126138, and 173181 are all connected, and at least some of these
descend from Rev William McGregor (see the public website for further
genealogical information).
- 196030, 153532 and 164088 are all related
though the ancestral information only goes back to Virginia,
M(a)cAdam(s)
The McAdam chart is hard to interpret and reference should
be made to the McAdam DNA project at www.familytreedna.com/public/mcadams.
As a result of the length of time which is suggested by the chart joining
individuals together (such as the split which occurs on the left hand side of the
chart) it is hard to say if these individuals all share a common surname origin
or whether they demonstrate multiple adoptions of the name. The following
participants are definitely related:
- Kits
82874 and 83205, [PEI Canada and
Armagh Ireland]
- Kits
8857 and 54141 [no location given and County Down]
- Kits
3714 and 48842 [County Down, Ireland – but the DNA says this cannot be the same
line as 54141 unless it is a different family with the same christian name used
or there has been a non paternity event in one of the lines]. 48842 goes back
to Prince William Va]
- Kits
233804 and 12683 may be related [no locations given - ?Scotland]
- Kits
144894 [North Carolina], 197837 [North Carolina], 16568 [Scotland], 76324
[County Down] and 165907 [ Waterhead] Kits 5237 [South Carolina], 71022 [Belfast]
and 183682 [no location] may be part of this group also.
Note that
71022, 76324, 104330, 16568, 144894, 197837, 183682, 11255, 5237, 11256,
133229, 230681, and 165907 all
share the characteristic signature which is primarily associated with Ireland
originally, and they will all have the typical SNP (see final section)
M222. They therefore share a
common ancestor in more recent time and in the last update I suggested, through
the creation of some grids, what the possible timeframe for this ancestor might
be.
SNPs and the future of genetic genealogy
As hinted at several points above, the
importance of SNP testing will become more and more important for the defining
of family groups in the future. SNPs will be used to date splits occurring
within family groups. At the moment these splits are being discovered for the
period which used to be called BC, and in British terms the time the time
between the retreat of the ice and the beginning of the first Millennium
AD. I have already mentioned that M222
defines an Irish group and within the last few months the discovery of L1335
has identified what is now being called the Scots Modal. For those of you who
have tested SNPs already you might have been confused by the constant changes
of labelling which have taken place over the past years. The problem has been
created by the constant discovery of new SNPs which define branches of
populations. So M222 participants were
called R1b1c7 in 2007 and that has changed every year since:
2008 =
R1b1b2a1b6b
2009 = R1b1b2a1a2f2
2010 = R1b1b2a1a2f2
2011 = R1b1a2a1a1b4b
2012 = R1b1a2a1a1b3a1a1
2010 = R1b1b2a1a2f2
2011 = R1b1a2a1a1b4b
2012 = R1b1a2a1a1b3a1a1
So it is
likely that from now on individuals will be classified according to the last
SNP they have had tested which is positive. So the Irish group will be R-M222
and the Scots Modal R-L1335 (the MacGregor bloodline lies in this group). As
newer SNPs are discovered the labels will change too depending on what tests
are positive for each individual. Once
these SNP tests become available and enough people do the tests it should be
possible to say within a period of maybe decades when parts of a family split.
For those who cannot find a way to locate ancestry back in Britain this could
be very important and may possibly even help with finding an ancestral geographical
location. According to the blog from which I quoted above there is a suggestion
that M222 will be broken down even further
– a new test offered by National Geographic Geno 2.0 will, according to
the blogger ‘reportedly, will
define at least three new subclades beneath M222, but I hear it may be more’.
The future for genetic genealogy is likely get very interesting for those who
want to know more about their origins as more testing firms start to offer
these tests.
If you want to discuss this further please contact me at
richardmcgregor1ATyahoo.co.uk replacing AT with the sign,
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